{"id":194501,"date":"2024-02-26T19:54:45","date_gmt":"2024-02-26T19:54:45","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/?p=194501"},"modified":"2024-02-26T19:54:45","modified_gmt":"2024-02-26T19:54:45","slug":"live-nation-is-surprised-and-thrilled-its-all-in-ticket-pricing-is-a-success-and-3-other-things-we-learned-on-the-companys-latest-earnings-call","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/live-nation-is-surprised-and-thrilled-its-all-in-ticket-pricing-is-a-success-and-3-other-things-we-learned-on-the-companys-latest-earnings-call\/","title":{"rendered":"Live Nation is \u2018surprised and thrilled\u2019 its all-in ticket pricing is a success&#8230; and 3 other things we learned on the company\u2019s latest earnings call"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>The era of \u201call-in\u201d pricing for concert tickets is finally arriving in the United States \u2013 and it will be backed by the law, Live Nation\u2019s leadership predicts.<\/p>\n<p>The live concert and ticketing company <a href=\"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/over-145m-fans-attended-50000-live-nation-events-in-2023-with-companys-fy-revenues-soar-36-yoy-to-22-7bn-in-its-biggest-year-ever\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">announced its Q4 2023 and full-year earnings<\/a> on Friday (February 23), showing revenues up a whopping <span style=\"color: #008000;\"><strong>36% YoY<\/strong><\/span> in 2023, to <strong>USD $22.7 billion<\/strong>.<\/p>\n<p>Its ticketing business, <strong>Ticketmaster<\/strong>, saw revenues spike by <span style=\"color: #008000;\"><strong>32% YoY<\/strong><\/span>, on a constant currency basis, to <strong>$2.9 billion<\/strong>. All told, the company\u2019s adjusted operating income jumped <span style=\"color: #008000;\"><strong>32% YoY<\/strong><\/span>, to <strong>$1.86 billion<\/strong>.<\/p>\n<p>Little wonder, then, that the company called 2023 its \u201c<strong>biggest year ever<\/strong>.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">      <div class=\"mb-advert__incontent\">      <div class=\"mb-advert mb-advert__tweeny hidden-xs hidden-ms hidden-sm\" data-loaded=\"no\" data-sizes=\"992 1200 1440\" data-name=\"628x90 Sponsor banner #5 (992+1200+1440)\" data-params=\"dfp_sponsor5_628\" id=\"dfp_sponsor5_628\"><\/div>      <div class=\"mb-advert mb-advert__banner mb-advert__banner--inline hidden-xs hidden-sm hidden-md hidden-lg\" data-loaded=\"no\" data-sizes=\"480\" data-name=\"468x60 Sponsor banner #5 (480)\" data-params=\"dfp_sponsor5_468\" id=\"dfp_sponsor5_468\"><\/div>      <div class=\"mb-advert mb-advert__mobile mb-advert__mobile--inline hidden-ms hidden-md hidden-lg\" data-loaded=\"no\" data-sizes=\"320 768\" data-name=\"300x50 Sponsor banner #5 (320+768)\" data-params=\"dfp_sponsor5_300\" id=\"dfp_sponsor5_300\"><\/div>      <\/div>      <\/span><\/p>\n<p>Even some bets that seemed potentially shaky paid off \u2013 not least Live Nation\u2019s shift to all-in pricing at its owned-and-operated festivals and venues in the US last September.<\/p>\n<p>Concertgoers have long complained about the \u201cbait-and-switch\u201d nature of advertised ticket prices. After fees, taxes and other add-ons, tickets could sometimes <a href=\"https:\/\/www.bbc.com\/news\/entertainment-arts-64975160\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">cost considerably more<\/a> than the posted amount. It was in response to these types of criticisms that Live Nation <a href=\"https:\/\/www.livenationentertainment.com\/2023\/06\/live-nation-venues-lead-industry-with-new-all-in-pricing-to-make-ticketing-more-transparent-for-consumers\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">announced its new US-wide policy<\/a> last year.<\/p>\n<p>And despite some reservations about a policy that would mean Live Nation would be advertising relatively higher ticket prices than competing sellers, the company reported on Friday that they were seeing no negative impact, and even actually seeing a <em>higher<\/em> conversion rate (i.e., more people clicking through from the advertised price to ticket purchase).<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">      <div class=\"mb-advert__incontent\">      <div class=\"mb-advert mb-advert__spu\" data-loaded=\"no\" data-name=\"300x250 Sponsor MPU #1\" data-params=\"dfp_spu1\" id=\"dfp_spu1\"><\/div>      <\/div>      <\/span><\/p>\n<p>\u201cWe&#8217;re actually surprised and thrilled because we were always skeptical if we [could] be the one to lead the path, if there was any [reduction in] conversion that would hurt us. But I think consumers are loving the idea [that] they can see [the final price] up front,\u201d CEO <strong>Michael Rapino<\/strong> said on Live Nation\u2019s earnings call Friday.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cUltimately, they&#8217;re shopping multiple tabs anyway, so they&#8217;re probably figuring out the true costs are the same. So yeah, we think it&#8217;s a great test.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Rapino also predicted that all-in pricing, in some way, will eventually become not just a matter of practice for ticket sellers, but also a matter of law.<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>&#8220;I think consumers are loving the idea [that] they can see [the final price] up front.&#8221;<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">Michael Rapino, Live Nation<\/span><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>He said that in talks with politicians, \u201cthis seems to be the common torch that everyone&#8217;s running with. So I would assume this ends up being legislated somewhere, over time, and I would assume others are going to start jumping on the all-in wagon as a good step forward for consumers, so we can worry about the other issues around scalping, etc.,\u201d Rapino added.<\/p>\n<p>Indeed, three US states have already mandated all-in pricing, with Ticketmaster <a href=\"https:\/\/blog.ticketmaster.com\/all-in-pricing-explained\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">already offering all-in ticket prices<\/a> in New York, Tennessee and Connecticut.<\/p>\n<p>And there\u2019s a good chance that a similar law could be passed on the national level. The Speculative Ticketing Oversight and Prohibition (STOP) Act <a href=\"https:\/\/www.billboard.com\/business\/legal\/concert-ticket-bill-all-in-pricing-refunds-moves-forward-1235544051\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">got the green light<\/a> from a House of Representatives committee in December, making it eligible for a full House vote.<\/p>\n<p>Here are three other things we learned on Live Nation\u2019s latest earnings call&#8230;<\/p>\n<hr \/>\n<h6>1) Dynamic pricing is Live Nation\u2019s \u2018great growth opportunity\u2019 as it expands internationally<\/h6>\n<p>Live Nation\u2019s Platinum program \u2013 the name the company gives to its \u201cdynamic\u201d ticket pricing strategy \u2013 has seen some controversies over the past few years, not least when high demand for a particular show results in elevated prices for the best seats in the house, as was the case with <a href=\"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/bruce-springsteens-manager-jon-landau-breaks-silence-on-5000-tour-tickets\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Bruce Springsteen\u2019s tour<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p>The company <a href=\"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/the-concert-ticket-market-is-dramatically-underpriced-and-3-other-things-we-learned-from-michael-rapino-on-live-nations-q1-earnings-call\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">defends the program<\/a> on the grounds that, without dynamic pricing, the difference between what it charges for tickets and the highest prices fans are willing to pay ends up in the hands of secondary-market ticket sellers, i.e. scalpers, rather than in artists\u2019 hands.<\/p>\n<p>Live Nation also argues that dynamic pricing effectively subsidizes the lower-priced tickets at the back of the house.<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">      <div class=\"mb-advert__incontent\">      <div class=\"mb-advert mb-advert__spu\" data-loaded=\"no\" data-name=\"300x250 Sponsor MPU #2\" data-params=\"dfp_spu2\" id=\"dfp_spu2\"><\/div>      <\/div>      <\/span><\/p>\n<p>Despite the pushback from some fans, the company is pushing forward with its plans to expand dynamic pricing \u2013 especially in markets outside the US, where the practice has just begun.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cOutside of the US, we&#8217;re in the first inning\u2026 We&#8217;re just rolling this out around the world. So that&#8217;s the great growth opportunity, obviously,\u201d Rapino said on the earnings call.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cWe&#8217;ve had it in Europe but [it\u2019s] still in [its] infancy stages. We&#8217;re going to expand it down to South America, Australia, etc.\u201d<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>&#8220;Outside of the US, we&#8217;re in the first inning\u2026 We&#8217;re just rolling this out around the world. So that&#8217;s the great growth opportunity, obviously.&#8221;<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">Live Nation&#8217;s Michael Rapino, on dynamic pricing<\/span><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>He says when Live Nation brings the practice to international markets, it\u2019s \u201cwell received when it gets there. Promoters are anxious for it. Artists are anxious for it, because they see, when they sell an arena in Baltimore versus Milan right now, they look at the grosses and say, \u2018Wow, we&#8217;re leaving too much on the table for the scalpers. Let&#8217;s price this better.\u2019 So that&#8217;s our best sales pitch. So you&#8217;re going to see that [accelerate].\u201d<\/p>\n<p>In the US, dynamic pricing is \u201cin the fifth inning,\u201d Rapino said, implying that its implementation is roughly half-finished. He added he expects to see it expanded from top-tier artists\u2019 shows to lower-tier venues such as amphitheaters and smaller venues.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cSo we still think that&#8217;s a multiyear opportunity to continue to grow our top line\/bottom line,\u201d he said.<\/p>\n<hr \/>\n<h6>2) Live Nation sees demand shifting from stadiums to amphitheaters this year \u2013 but that\u2019s good for margins<\/h6>\n<p>In 2023, stadium shows led Live Nation\u2019s attendance growth, with more than <strong>29 million<\/strong> fans attending stadium shows, an increase of <span style=\"color: #008000;\"><strong>60% YoY<\/strong><\/span>.<\/p>\n<p>But that was the year of Taylor Swift, Morgan Wallen and Bruce Springsteen. This coming year may look somewhat different, especially given the high baseline set by 2023.<\/p>\n<p>Though Live Nation still sees a strong year for stadium shows \u2013 on the call, Rapino mentioned planned tours by <strong>Usher<\/strong>, <strong>Justin Timberlake<\/strong>\u00a0and <strong>Jennifer Lopez<\/strong> \u2013 yet it also sees a shift in demand away from the largest venues towards amphitheaters, and lower volume overall in stadiums.<\/p>\n<p>That will have an effect on Live Nation\u2019s deferred revenue (since the timeline for ticket sales at amphitheaters is shorter than the timeline on sales for stadium concerts) and it will mean more of Live Nation\u2019s concert revenue concentrated in Q2 and Q3 this year (since the bulk of amphitheater shows take place in the warmer months in and around summer).<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>&#8220;[At amphitheaters] when we invest capital on-site, we&#8217;re getting <strong>20%<\/strong>, <strong>30%<\/strong> returns on capital when we turn that grassy area into a VIP club, a membership club.&#8221;<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">Michael Rapino, Live Nation<\/span><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>Yet for Live Nation, this means higher margins, because \u2013 unlike with many stadium shows \u2013 the company owns its own network of amphitheaters.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cIt&#8217;s going to have a higher AOI [adjusted operating income] per fan because we&#8217;re counting the beer money, the parking money, other revenue streams when we have the fans on-site,\u201d Live Nation President and CFO <strong>Joe Berchtold<\/strong> said on the call.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cIt will mean, just on a top-line basis, a lower revenue per fan because the stadium tickets tend to be the highest priced tickets, so you&#8217;ll see a real divergence there between the AOI per fan and the revenue per fan,\u201d Berchtold continued.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cThat obviously will translate into improved margin on the concert segment this year, which should particularly come through in the second and third quarters. On Ticketmaster, the way it flows through is that it would have had fewer on-sales in the fourth quarter because the amphitheater shows tend to go on sale closer in time to the shows.\u201d<\/p>\n<hr \/>\n<p>One explanation for this shift towards amphitheater shows is the <a href=\"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/the-pandemic-reminded-people-how-much-they-wanted-to-be-at-a-show\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">boom in \u201cmiddle class\u201d artists<\/a>, those touring musicians who are not quite at the level of stadium shows, but with a larger fan base than those who tour clubs.<\/p>\n<p>Live Nation\u2019s leadership also noted that investments into premium offerings at owned-and-operated amphitheaters also present a large profit opportunity.<\/p>\n<p>At the amphitheaters, \u201cwhen we invest capital on-site, we&#8217;re getting <strong>20%<\/strong>, <strong>30%<\/strong> returns on capital when we turn that grassy area into a VIP club, a membership club,\u201d Rapino said, adding that amphitheaters \u201ccould double their AOI\u201d if Live Nation focuses on how to upscale these sites with premium experiences.<\/p>\n<hr \/>\n<h6>3) Live Nation plans to spend $300 million on new venues and renos this year<\/h6>\n<p>Speaking of upscaling, Live Nation is planning to spend <strong>$300 million<\/strong> in 2024 on new venues and renovations to its existing stock.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cAnd about half of that, about <strong>$150 million<\/strong>, is our top four projects, [which] would include a major revamp of Foro Sol, which is the top international stadium in the world, down in Mexico City,\u201d Berchtold said on the call.<\/p>\n<p>He added that these projects have an expected return on investment in the <strong>mid-20s percent<\/strong>.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cThe other [revenue generator] would be a combination of tactical things in existing venues. A new VIP club, a new viewing deck, rock boxes, some new bar designs that are extremely high returns, generally, <strong>40s<\/strong>, <strong>50s-plus percent<\/strong>,\u201d Berchtold added.<\/p>\n<p>In the longer term, venue acquisitions will continue, Rapino said.<\/p>\n<p>Live Nation is \u201cwinning right now some key venues around the world that we&#8217;ll be continuing to announce,\u201d he told analysts on the call.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cSo we see it scaling over the next five years much, much higher than it was in the past, just because we hadn&#8217;t focused that much on international arenas before, and we see a great path forward on these.\u201d<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>In 2023, stadium shows led Live Nation\u2019s attendance growth, with more than 29 million fans attending stadium shows, an increase of 60% YoY<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":46,"featured_media":153462,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[9,7],"tags":[122895,489,491,490],"class_list":["post-194501","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-analysis","category-news","tag-joe-berchtold","tag-live-nation","tag-michael-rapino","tag-ticketmaster"],"acf":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/194501","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/46"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=194501"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/194501\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/153462"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=194501"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=194501"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.musicbusinessworldwide.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=194501"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}